Discussions with Michael Cremo and correspondents

Excerpt from an interview with Michael Cremo on the Lou Gentile Show 7-28-04
Note: Kevin Meares appeared as a guest host with Lou on this show.

Lou Gentile:  Okay, so do you think that people are going to question a lot of what the science books
are publishing about the history of man, at some particular point?

Michael Cremo: 
There’s already a lot of questioning going on. And what I’m proposing is not actually so
extreme. Most people already agree with what I say.  It just so happens that because of this government
enforced monopoly that the Darwinists now have on the education system, it’s not a message that’s really
being gotten out [in the classrooms]. But what I would like to see is some diversity.  Not that just immediately
these other [Darwinian evolutionary] ideas are going to be taken out of the textbooks. But in the textbooks
and classrooms it should be admitted there are other ideas.  The textbooks should say, yes, today most
scientists believe in this theory of evolution – but there are other scientists who do not accept it – here are
their reasons.  And let’s have a discussion about it…..let people make up their own minds, rather than
having the government, through its judicial system, dictate to us what everybody should believe.

Kevin Meares:
What the government’s dictating to us, though, has long been that they should not teach
religious ideas in classrooms, which is precisely what the main proponents against evolution are trying to
do.  They’re trying to get biblical creationism taught as scientific theory, and it’s not – it’s religious belief.

Michael Cremo:
Atheism is a religious belief as well…

Kevin Meares:
But Evolution is a theory….I’m not saying they should be teaching Atheism either.

Michael Cremo:
  But they do.  Because all the textbook [say], “People used to believe God [created
the species] until Darwin came, and then he showed how you can explain the origin of all the species
without God.” So by talking about God in this negative way, the evolutionists are introducing religion
into the science texts.  If they don’t want to have religion they shouldn’t talk about God at all

Kevin Meares:
They’re introducing the scientific theory into scientific texts.  You’re right, they shouldn’t
talk about God, but evolutionists do not need God to talk about evolution.

Michael Cremo:
  But they do.  Look at any biology textbook.  Do you find mention of the Scopes Trial,
and how people used to believe that God created….

Kevin Meares: A trial of teaching religion versus science.

Michael Cremo:  Right. ….You do see that, don’t you?

Kevin Meares:
  But it’s still, it’s an essential point that they shouldn’t…

Michael Cremo:
  So they want to promote Atheism.

Kevin Meares: 
And the people who brought the Scopes Monkey Trial wanted to promote religion
over science.

Michael Cremo:  Not religion over science.

Kevin Meares:
  Yes, they wanted to promote the idea of creation…..

Michael Cremo:
  First of all…..Does science deal with everything that exists?

Kevin Meares: 
Science is the study of what does exist.

Michael Cremo: 
Okay, what if God exists?

Kevin Meares:
  What if God does exist? I’m not saying God does not exist.

Michael Cremo:
  Let’s forget about the rituals of religion and the kind of church you have. 
What if it’s an actual fact that God exists – wouldn’t that be a scientific fact?  

Kevin Meares: 
Yes it would.

Michael Cremo:
  What if the soul exists?  What if the conscious self can exist apart from the body?…
In other words, we’re talking about facts.  Now religion means how you deal with those facts.  Like yes,
God exists, and maybe I want to please Him somehow and you have some religious rituals…..But the fact
that God exists is scientific.

Kevin Meares: 
You haven’t shown that.  I’m sorry – you’ve shown a lot of speculation about an
alternate, religious-based examination…

Michael Cremo:
  You haven’t shown that evolution takes place….you’ve speculated that it did.

Kevin Meares:
  You’re drawing on opinion as opposed…..

Michael Cremo: Intelligent design, the existence of a designer, creator – these are things that can be
discussed factually.  For example, in front of you, you’ve probably got some kind of computer.  We
can discuss – well, is that just some meteorite that crashed through the roof of your studio and is
sitting there – just some lump of iron?  Or is it a computer that somebody created? It’s a factual
discussion – it has nothing to do with religion. We don’t have to worship the computer or worship
the meteorite.

Kevin Meares:  But you don’t need God to discuss intelligent design.

Michael Cremo:  Well, you need some kind of intelligent designer.

Kevin Meares:  Could be an alien from another planet -

Michael Cremo:  That’s right.

Kevin Meares:  – could be a time traveler.

Michael Cremo:  Okay, so that’s your idea, you can promote that idea.  I’ll promote the idea
that there is some Supreme Intelligent Being.

Kevin Meares:  My point is, these are ideas, not scientific theories.  We should have a discussion
of the facts, not of speculation…..  

…..Michael Cremo:  Yeah, so we should have a discussion.  What is the nature of a designer?
It’s a scientific discussion. . . . .  Actually, the Darwinists and the Intelligent Design Theorists just
have a difference of opinion about the cause of the design visible in living things.   The Darwinists
think it’s due to natural selection and chance mutations – although they have not demonstrated
that that’s the case for any complex organ of the human being or any other thing –  nobody can….

Kevin Meares:  And nobody’s demonstrated an old guy with a beard has created everything either.

Michael Cremo:  Who says it’s an old guy with a beard?

Lou Gentile: Michael, what are your thoughts on DNA and the way that DNA is basically in everything?

Michael Cremo:  Well, I think that’s something you’d expect if there was a single creator or designer –
that he would make use of the same materials.  Actually, that’s sort of strange – according to evolution
theory you probably could have a bunch of types of [molecules] that the genetic material of living things
should be made of.

Lou Gentile: Right.  I mean, why do you think that everything has a design to it?… I mean, I’m sure
that this has probably crossed your mind, but how . . .  

Kevin Meares:  Okay. First of all, I wouldn’t agree at all that the design necessarily eliminates the
idea of evolution.  

Lou Gentile: Right.

Kevin Meares:  It doesn’t.  Second of all…

Michael Cremo: Well, it doesn’t, but first then you have to prove evolution.

Kevin Meares: You have to prove that there’s a designer too.. . . .   

Michael Cremo:  So just like there’s the computer sitting on your desk.  You can’t see the designer,
but you know there is one, right?

Kevin Meares:  True.

Michael Cremo:  That’s enough.

Lou Gentile:  Hold that thought….we’ll be right back!

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